Sovereignty, Prayer and the Pastor Search
My local church is currently searching for a pastor. Another I know of is about to begin this process.
I have been through this many times before. At one church I was even on the search team.
One of the things that I hear and have heard is that God already has this pastor chosen. It is just the job of the team to find this man. They have to pray, seek suggestions and speak to different men in the interest of finding the right man.
We have even begun to meet and/or pray at 11 am each day to see this man.
My question is this: Why should we pray for this when God has already chosen the pastor for us?
My answer is this: This is exactly why we should pray for this process.
If God has chosen the man, then by praying we are admitting that we cannot control this process and that it is up to Him. We trust Him with guiding the process.
However, if we don’t believe that He is in control of the process or that it’s up to man’s free will, then you shouldn’t pray for the search of a pastor. You would be violating what you believe by asking Him to be involved in the proceedings.
Things like this tell us what we really believe about God. Is He a God who is involved and decrees what happens? Or is He a God who allows man to make choices on his own.
Which will it be?
What do you believe about God’s sovereignty? Is God in control? Or is man?
You raise a good question Larry. I like your thought: Because God is sovereign and has the man picked out already you pray. You pray for guidance. You pray for wisdom. You pray that your choice is done with research and trust in God’s leading. His choosing not yours.
That pretty much sums it up, Bill. My prayers have shifted from what I want to what He wants. Doesn’t mean I don’t screw that up, but I aim that way.
Praying for God’s pick also prepares the hearts of the congregation to willingly receive the one God has for the job. That happens so often in prayer. We pray for another, and in the process God does something in us. I think prayer can be the process, or part of the process, through which God gives us His perspective.
I think prayer is so much more that giving your laundry list to the Lord. I believe it is one way how God affects us and moves us in His direction. Don’t know how that works, but it does.
Larry, I may be the only Arminian who follows your blog, but I always find your thoughts very insightful. If one takes a strong view of the authority of the Scriptures, it is hard to be strongly Calvinistic (emphasizing Sovereignty) or Arminian (emphasizing humankind’s freedom and personal responsibility). However, we all tend to come down leaning toward one point of view or the other. From my point of view there are too many passages emphasizing personal responsibility and others that name Satan as “The Prince of the Power of the Air”, “The God of this World,” etc. for the Sovereignty view to make sense to me. (Though as I have shared with you privately, I was raised a Calvinist.) However, be assured that I love and repect my brothers and sisters in Christ who differ from me in this.
In this post, I must lovingly take issue with one of the things that you have said. Your statement, that I quote below, does not adequately address the viewpoint you seek to oppose.
“However, if we don’t believe that He is in control of the process or that it’s up to man’s free will, then you shouldn’t pray for the search of a pastor. You would be violating what you believe by asking Him to be involved in the proceedings.”
Larry, the only way that I would be violating what I believe by praying for God’s guidance and help would be if I believed in the divinity of humanity, or rejected ANY involvement of God in this world. I do not. I believe that we are in relationship with God, and that our part in that relationship is faith. I believe that we often fail to do our part! We do not exercise faith and pray and then wonder what is wrong in our relationship with God. Where I think we disagree the most is that I believe that we can reject God and refuse His will for our lives. In the matter of seeking a pastor, we should pray that we are open and are led to the person who would be the best “fit” to meet the spiritual needs of our congregation. We should also be praying for that person to not be distracted from hearing God’s voice, but that he (or she) would hear and obey. I believe that EITHER the potential pastor or the congregation can go astray and refuse to follow God’s leading.
I find it interesting historically that a strongly Calvinistic point of view sometimes leads to Universalism. The argument there is often something like, “If God is in control, and if He is a loving God, then how can anyone ultimately resist His love? His love will ultimately win EVERYONE!” Though I do not hold to this point of view, it is one that is beginning to see a resurgence along with the growing resurgence of Reformed Theology.
The Arminian point of view does not by any means remove God from the process, but involves Him just as deeply, perhaps even more so. The main difference is that it allows for the possibility that we have a serious responsibility in the midst of our humanity and that we can do things that are seriously wrong and for which we hold true responsibility. We cannot blame our poor choices or our wrong decisions on the Sovereignty of God. It is certainly not a violation of what I believe to ask God to be involved!
I hope this helps to provide some clarity regarding a different point of view that still seeks to follow our Lord and Master! Thank you for sharing your gift of writing. I read this blog regularly, and greatly appreciate your insights, even though I do not always comment.
Be assured that you have at least one of the Arminian persuasion who is praying with you as your church seeks a new pastor!
David, I’m going to respond more fully when I get home tonight. It’s difficult to try to capture all these thoughts on my phone. Let’s just say that I enjoy our discussions about this type of thing because we can walk away still loving each other, in unity, but not in agreement. I forget who it was that Wesley debated this with. They found they were much closer in thought than either one of them thought.
David,
I know that most people would call me a Calvinist and we’ve have those discussions in the past. I find it almost useless to use the terms Calvinist and Armininian these days, because there is so much presuppositions on both sides for there to be a lot of meaningful dialogue.
At one time I flew the Calvinisty flag proudly and in the forefront. However, the last thing I want to do is convert anyone to Calvinism or take them away from Armininianism. What I want to do is magnify God to such a degree that He is such a big God.
The view expressed in what you quoted of me is what I think is the extreme outer reaches of what we would call Arminianism. It’s what I would call the logical conclusion if you really follow that viewpoint on out. I don’t think many believers really, truthfully reach that point any more than I believe that many of my persuasion reach a Universalist point of view. I can’t conceive going that route. I do believe that we couldn’t resist Him, unless He only willed for those He has chosen to come to Him. It would be similar to when Jesus called Lazarus. If he hadn’t called Him by name, all would have risen.
I think your viewpoint is a picture of how you see God. A lens. Mine is too. Guess what? Both are imperfect. At 44, I can see that much better than I could 10, 5 or even 2 years ago.
I appreciate you reading. I especially appreciate you disagreeing with me. It makes me think and consider my viewpoint. I don’t think you will persuade me, but it definitely challenges me.
Larry,
Well said, my friend! As Paul said, we “see through a glass darkly!” George Whitfield is probably the person you are thinking of who oft debated Wesley. I really love the fact that Wesley was called upon to preach his funeral, despite their theological differences. I rejoice in our fellowship and enjoy our discussions. As Wesley said, “Though we cannot think alike, may we not love alike? May we not be of one heart, though we are not of one opinion? Without all doubt, we may. Herein all the children of God may unite, notwithstanding these smaller differences.”
David,
I almost called Whitefield’s name, but wasn’t sure. I know they were contemporaries, so that makes sense.
I don’t claim to be an expert on this but I think the answer is yes. God is in control but we do have free will. How do I know? Well if I walked up to you and punched you in the face can I blame God for my actions? No. It’s my free will that led me to do that. God is in control and can use even that to bring glory to Himself. Oh and I’d never punch you in the face.
Rob, I don’t claim that we don’t have free will. I just don’t believe we have free will the way most people imagine we have free will. The simplified version looks like this:
Adam and Eve —libertarian free will, meaning they actually had a choice until the Fall
Unrevenerated Fallen Man—slave to sin, free to sin any way he chooses…everything he does is driven by the sin nature
Regenerated Man—no longer slave to sin, but flesh still remains. The will is kind of caught in a war between the flesh and the Spirit.
Glorified Man—back to original condition of the will.
I don’t think of God as a puppet master. I believe He created me and before I knew Christ I, as a slave to sin, would freely choose to sin as I was a slave to it. Once saved, the bondage was broken and I was free to not sin for the rest of my life. Sometimes I will. Sometimes I won’t. My prayer is sanctification will weed much of the sin out. At last I will be glorified and will at last choose to not sin.
There’s a ton more to say and I think some of that will come out later in my further response to my friend, David.